The Polite Tank



  • A short true story in two chat logs. :)

    EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Itamo
    EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Maurasi
    EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Perimeter
    EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Urlen
    EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Kisogo
    EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Thera
    Aliza Kootz > Hey Y'all signal cartel here, please don't shoot. :)
    EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Itamo
    EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Maurasi
    EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Perimeter
    EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Urlen
    EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Kisogo
    EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Thera
    Aliza Kootz > hey fellas, am a signal cartel member and in a pod, I would appreciate not being shot. :)
    Liberty Prime > You will be shot with extreme prejudice
    EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Itamo
    EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Maurasi
    EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Perimeter
    EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Urlen
    EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Kisogo
    EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Thera
    Aliza Kootz > Dormammu, I've come to bargain. :)
    EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Kisogo
    EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Thera
    Aliza Kootz > Dormammu, I've come to bargain. :)
    EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Kisogo
    EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Thera
    Aliza Kootz > Dormammu, I've come to bargain. :)

    Liberty Prime > How do you want to bargain?
    Aliza Kootz > Eventually you'll run out of ammo from shooting me, and those missiles must be expensive.
    Liberty Prime > We make a lot of money killing people on the hole
    Aliza Kootz > So, just let me know and I'll bring some.
    Aliza Kootz > Sure thing, but you don't make a profit killing me. :)
    Liberty Prime > Why don't you take another wormhole instead?
    Aliza Kootz > Eh, I've just changed my home base to Kisogo just so I can jump through this particular one more often. I'm bored and don't have much else to do :)
    Aliza Kootz > I'm waiting to unpolarize on the other side of the hole right now
    Aliza Kootz > should be there in 60 seconds.
    Aliza Kootz > 50
    Aliza Kootz > 40
    Aliza Kootz > 30
    Aliza Kootz > 20
    Aliza Kootz > 10
    Liberty Prime > Alright, good luck I guess
    Aliza Kootz > drones, good choice no ammunition expenses.
    Liberty Prime > I don't really care about killing you, but it's not an effective blockade if you just let people through
    Liberty Prime > Just go through now
    Liberty Prime > Bubble is down
    Aliza Kootz > and I could always use my jump clone inside Thera to get past you guys. But that wouldn't be as fun as practicing my pod's polite tank. :)
    Liberty Prime > Bubble is down for a minute or so
    Aliza Kootz > still have 10 seconds of polarize
    Aliza Kootz > Dormammu, I've come to bargain. :)
    Aliza Kootz > :p
    Liberty Prime > :)



  • Help me understand what's going on here. I don't get it.





  • Thanks, @Scarsan-Stripes, very helpful!

    Part of me really likes to see a creative approach like this when dealing with campers. It definitely fits the "shed no tears" part of the Credo. And, in this case, it seems like the blockading player got a laugh out of the whole thing and was having fun with it. So, all good!

    But, since there is another way I could look at this, I guess I'll borrow @Mynxee's Credo soapbox for a moment and hope she doesn't mind. Part of me is concerned that something like this could be seen as annoying or, in a worst case, passive-aggressive behavior. Dr. Strange's interaction with Dormammu wasn't polite; it was more of a "I'm just going to keep coming back until you give me what I want, so you might as well give up" sort of thing. Call it a "persistence tank," maybe. And alluding to the fact that there is an option available to avoid the situation altogether by using a jump clone could be seen as rubbing salt in the wound, so to speak, further aggravating the situation.

    I'm not saying that is what was happening here. I know there is a lot lost just reading the chat logs after the fact. I'm sure this interaction was fine. But I could see how a pilot might view something like this as unfriendly or disrespectful behavior, and that would be something to be avoided if it is in our power to do so.

    As I'm handing the soapbox back to Mynxee, I'll just issue the reminder that thinking like this -- anticipating how our actions might be viewed by others and how that might impact the reputation of the corp -- is part of the chess game we play as members of Signal Cartel. It's not always easy to do so, and we don't always get it right. That's OK. But we must put the effort in to try to see it from the other's perspective. It adds a layer of complexity to an already complicated game environment -- but that is all part of the fun. And it is a big part of what makes Signal Cartel unique within the sandbox of New Eden.

    I welcome further discussion, as I almost always learn something when we have one of these Credo conversations on the forums.

    Thanks, Signaleers, one and all, for bringing your A-game with you every time you log in.



  • Aliza Kootz > Hey Y'all signal cartel here, please don't shoot

    I insist that this is totally unacceptable.

    Our 'reputation tank' is not some magic low slot module that obliges everyone to stop shooting and remove bubbles when we jump into the system.
    If they want to kill us, we are trying to escape or fight back (act in self-defense). If we don't succeed, we die. That is how EVE works. This is how other people play this game. Not everyone likes Signal Cartel.

    Requests 'not to shoot because I am from SC' can harm our reputation even more than direct Credo violations.

    If I see that I am to land in a bubble while piloting my escape pod, I just type in local something like 'okay folks send me home' - knowing that they will want me on their killboard.

    In this situation @Aliza-Kootz could use other hole or clonejump.



  • For the record I did not find @Aliza-Kootz to be offensive or passive-aggressive. Though we regularly camp Thera and kill indiscriminately we're not out to harvest tears or continuously grief new players. Sometimes sending a private message is a good way to play the game.

    However...

    @Andrew-Chikatilo said in The Polite Tank:

    Requests 'not to shoot because I am from SC' can harm our reputation even more than direct Credo violations.

    I believe this is absolutely true.

    Just my opinion and not necessarily that of my alliance.



  • @Andrew-Chikatilo said in The Polite Tank:

    Requests 'not to shoot because I am from SC' can harm our reputation even more than direct Credo violations.

    Yes Indeed. All I have to add is “ underpants”...or alternatively, “knickers”.



  • It's hard to tell what's local and what's PM in the attached conversation. I think in this instance I would have either gone another way or just done something else. If you want to 'bargain' for safe passage do so on a personal level rather than bringing SC into it.



  • @Andrew-Chikatilo Since you mentioned this, I'll link to Mynxee's relevant comment from the most recent discussion of our "reputation tank." (Link requires Signal Cartel login.)

    "Rep tank is a gift, not an entitlement. It is not to be negotiated about or brought into any interaction with non-Signal pilots. Be humble and gracious regarding it when it magically deploys for your benefit." [emphasis in original]

    I do not think this particular aspect of flying as a member of Signal Cartel is stated quite so clearly in the DII (if I am wrong, please let me know), so I think newer pilots in corp may not know about this. Hence the value in discussions like this one.

    Quite helpful to to hear from @Liberty-Prime directly on this, too. Welcome to our forums! (Which reminds me that this post is in the Public Lobby.) I appreciate your graciousness in the situation.



  • @Leda "Reputation Underpants: comforting to have, but not for public display." ~Leda



  • Sorry, what I though was a humorous anecdote has somehow metastasized.

    In the interest of clarity, I'll reformat the two separate logs (local, and private chat) into chronological order, with comments.

    https://zkillboard.com/kill/70375388/
    https://zkillboard.com/kill/70375434/ (2018-06-03 18:15)
    (I then use my jump clone to get to Thera, and explore for a few hours)
    https://zkillboard.com/kill/70383838/
    https://zkillboard.com/kill/70383861/(2018-06-03 23:09)
    (jump clone is unavailable for a while, so I need to fly a pod back)
    Local: EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Itamo
    Local: EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Maurasi
    Local: EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Perimeter
    Local: EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Urlen
    Local: EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Kisogo
    Local: EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Thera
    Local: Aliza Kootz > Hey Y'all signal cartel here, please don't shoot. :)
    https://zkillboard.com/kill/70384077/
    Local: EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Itamo
    Local: EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Maurasi
    Local: EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Perimeter
    Local: EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Urlen
    Local: EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Kisogo
    Local: EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Thera
    Local: Aliza Kootz > hey fellas, am a signal cartel member and in a pod, I would appreciate not being shot. :)
    Local: Liberty Prime > You will be shot with extreme prejudice
    https://zkillboard.com/kill/70384215/
    Local: EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Itamo
    Local: EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Maurasi
    Local: EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Perimeter
    Local: EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Urlen
    Local: EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Kisogo (while here, I change my home base, because there's a Doctor Strange like conversation occurring, and I intend to lean into the theme a bit)
    Local: EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Thera
    Local: Aliza Kootz > Dormammu, I've come to bargain. :)
    https://zkillboard.com/kill/70384358/
    Local: EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Kisogo
    Private: Liberty Prime > How do you want to bargain?
    Private: Aliza Kootz > Eventually you'll run out of ammo from shooting me, and those missiles must be expensive.
    Private: Liberty Prime > We make a lot of money killing people on the hole
    Private: Aliza Kootz > So, just let me know and I'll bring some.
    Private: Aliza Kootz > Sure thing, but you don't make a profit killing me. :)
    Private: Liberty Prime > Why don't you take another wormhole instead?
    Private: Aliza Kootz > Eh, I've just changed my home base to Kisogo just so I can jump through this particular one more often. I'm bored and don't have much else to do :)
    Private: Aliza Kootz > I'm waiting to unpolarize on the other side of the hole right now
    Private: Aliza Kootz > should be there in 60 seconds.
    Private: Aliza Kootz > 50
    Private: Aliza Kootz > 40
    Private: Aliza Kootz > 30
    Private: Aliza Kootz > 20
    Private: Aliza Kootz > 10
    Private: Liberty Prime > Alright, good luck I guess
    Local: EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Thera
    Local: Aliza Kootz > Dormammu, I've come to bargain. :)
    https://zkillboard.com/kill/70384435/
    Private: Aliza Kootz > drones, good choice no ammunition expenses.
    Private: Liberty Prime > I don't really care about killing you, but it's not an effective blockade if you just let people through
    Private: Liberty Prime > Just go through now
    Private: Liberty Prime > Bubble is down
    Private: Aliza Kootz > and I could always use my jump clone inside Thera to get past you guys. But that wouldn't be as fun as practicing my pod's polite tank. :) (which since my jump clone is still on cooldown isn't actually an option for me, and I'm having fun with this)
    Private: Liberty Prime > Bubble is down for a minute or so
    Private: Aliza Kootz > still have 10 seconds of polarize
    Local: EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Kisogo
    Local: EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Thera
    Local: Aliza Kootz > Dormammu, I've come to bargain. :)
    Private: Aliza Kootz > Dormammu, I've come to bargain. :)
    Private: Aliza Kootz > :p
    Private: Liberty Prime > :)

    As I've only been a member of SC for a couple of days, I do apologize if my nascent understanding of the credo wasn't aligned well with it's meaning.

    Anyway, I thought it was harmless fun, and hoped to share a humorous experience I had as a new player. I've learned quite a bit from this, and will be adjusting my behavior in the future. I didn't mean to harm SC's reputation in any way.



  • Dormammu, I've come to bargain.

    Incase you missed this... here is the reference from Doctor Strange:

    Youtube Video



  • @Aliza-Kootz No harm, no foul. Just food for thought for on down the line, which it sounds like you are already chewing on. Stay sharp!

    At the end of the day, we're in it together. Hope you decide to stick around for a good long while. :-)



  • @Aliza-Kootz said in The Polite Tank:

    As I've only been a member of SC for a couple of days, I do apologize if my nascent understanding of the credo wasn't aligned well with it's meaning.
    Anyway, I thought it was harmless fun, and hoped to share a humorous experience I had as a new player. I've learned quite a bit from this, and will be adjusting my behavior in the future. I didn't mean to harm SC's reputation in any way.

    We have all been there mate!

    @Mynxee is very forgiving when mistakes are made without intention. From your comments I can see as well, you had no ill will :D

    We have many "Internal" Creedo discussions - because many times nuances are found within the Creedo and how we all Apply it. The longer you stay, the more acquainted with the Creedo you will feel, like cozy old warm socks on a cold winter day.

    I have learned to summarize the Creedo as G.D.F.

    Above all, apply the Creedo with Grace, Dignity and Friendship for all.*

    =-=

    *Signal Cartel is a service corporation to all of New Eden. In this role, members are encouraged to treat all players with respect regardless of affiliation. In challenging situations, our goal is to look for a graceful resolution and set an example of dignity and friendship through our actions.



  • I deliberately did not chime in on this because I wanted to see how others would respond. Clearly, our new Signaleer @Aliza-Kootz did not have bad intentions, quite the opposite from what I see and with a sense of humor which of course we love. But as @Thrice-Hapus and other Signaleers have shared here, the it often involves some careful thought (and experience, too) to act in a neutral manner and conduct oneself in a manner becoming the Credo. No harm, no foul...it's a learning experience for all of us (and thus why I love me a good Credo discussion!!!). Many thanks to @Liberty-Prime for sharing the third party perspective...it is great to see your addition to the discussion! And though you did not mean to, @Aliza-Kootz, thank YOU for prompting this discussion! It helps everyone understand our expectations of our members a little better!


 

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